Friday, July 24, 2009

Where are the baal*ot* t'shuvah commenters?

Larry Lennhoff, Miami Al, and JDub comment frequently on my posts comparing Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, and a more articulate bunch I couldn't wish for. But, aside from West Bank Mama, I can't think of any other female former-non-Orthodox-become-Orthodox Jew (baalat t'shuvah) who comments regularly on my blog.

In my opinion, a woman who becomes Orthodox has much more to lose than a man. Long-time leiners (Torah readers, that is, those who chant directly from a Torah/Bible scroll, not an easy skill to acquire or perform) have to give it up (unless they live in a neighborhood with a Women's Tefillah/Prayer Group or Partnership Minyan). Orthodox rules don't allow the counting of women for a minyan (the 10-Jewish-adults minimum required for certain prayers), nor do they permit women to lead any public prayers, to be called for an aliyah (to have someone read to them directly from the Torah scroll) or to chant a haftarah (a reading from Judges or Prophets). What does she gain in return? Is it worth (what I consider) the sacrifice? Why? I'd love to hear from more of the women who've made the switch.

21 Comments:

Anonymous Lurker said...

As a long-time lurker who comes from a MO home but who has davened at both conservative and MO shuls but chose to live in a MO community, I think the answer is community. If you are shomer shabbat and don't drive, outside NYC if you want community (and friends for your kids to play with on Shabbat, you need to be on the MO side of the fence. With that comes the other trappings.

Fri Jul 24, 11:07:00 AM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

I'm assuming that you're a lurker of the female variety.

Agreed. Speaking as a lifelong Conservative Jew, I think community is the biggest draw of the Orthodox way of life.

Fri Jul 24, 01:54:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Still, I'm not ready to give up having aliyot. If you've read my blog, you'll know that I'm constantly torn between the annoyance of having to check the hechsher on every item at kiddush at some Conservative synagogues, on the one hand, and never again being allowed to lead musaf, on the other.

Fri Jul 24, 02:01:00 PM 2009  
Anonymous jdub said...

I'm a male of the species, but let me tell you, aliyot ain't all that. I go months or longer between aliyot. Who cares? I think most men could care less about getting one, except at a family simcha.

Also, many mod orth shuls have women's tefilla groups (even out here in the boonies). In NYC, it would be very, very easy to find a place that has one.

Fri Jul 24, 02:04:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Unknown said...

I don't read blogs much. I run a couple of yahoo groups and am in the process of starting 2 businesses and so my time is limited. My husband is one of your regular commenters. In many ways he is the feminist in our family. I'm a convert. You can read my story at http://lennhoff.com/ConversionStory.htm where I talk about my 3 conversions.

Fri Jul 24, 02:09:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Three conversions?! Nu, welcome to the mishpocheh, already!

Larry has mentioned the "fun" you had, checking hechshers in a Conservative synagogue--been there, done that, as stated above and in previous posts--before you two "switched." It's nice to hear from you directly.

I should warn you that your husband has graciously invited us for Shabbos, if we're ever in your neighborhood. Okay, it took me a month or so and an Internet search to determine that the Highland Park that you live in is in Massachusetts, not New Jersey. But if we get to Boston one of these days, maybe we'll take him up on his invitation, if it's okay with you. Hope you won't mind having a couple of geezers around and playing Moreh (er, Morah) to our N'vuchim.

Fri Jul 24, 02:33:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Okay, I am now officially confused--Malka Esther, both you and Larry list "Synagogue Council of Massachusetts" in your profiles as a blog in which both of you participate, but you list New Jersey as your residence on your own blog. So nu, are you two just south of us, down the Jersey Turnpike or Garden State Parkway from us, or do you live in the frozen northlands?

Fri Jul 24, 02:42:00 PM 2009  
Anonymous jdub said...

I'm 90% sure they live in Highland Park, NJ (my former dwelling place as well).

Fri Jul 24, 02:50:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

JDub said, ". . . aliyot ain't all that." Maybe not, or maybe they don't seem to be "all that" to someone who's always had the option, but I'd like to continue to have the option.

" Also, many mod orth shuls have women's tefilla groups (even out here in the boonies). In NYC, it would be very, very easy to find a place that has one." Sigh. Even to go to a Women's Tefillah Group, I'd have to move. It's my own fault, for not having moved to North Jersey when the hubster wanted to move there some 25 years ago. :(

Fri Jul 24, 03:07:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Unknown said...

Yes we live in highland park, NJ.

We lived in MA and are still involved in the synagogue council of MA. In a couple of weeks we will be attending their unity shabbaton.

Larry mentioned he had invited you to spend a shabbat here. As long as you don't have cat allergies just let us know what works for you and hopefully it will work for us.

Fri Jul 24, 03:10:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Larry Lennhoff said...

As my wife mentioned we are MA alums rather than current residents. I don't even think there is a Highland Park, MA - is there? Incidentally, the Synagogue Council is open to having a small number of non-MA people attend their annual Unity Shabbaton. It is the spiritual high point of my year. If you are interested, I believe there are a small number of places open for this year, Lurkers, please be aware this is NOT an outreach opportunity - people attend the event to be themselves in a diverse group, not to persuade other people as to the correctness of their lifestyle.

Sun Jul 26, 10:20:00 AM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Malka Esther and Larry, thank you very much for your kind invitations. Attending the Unity Shabbaton won't be possible for us, since we have other plans for our limited vacation time. But we'd appreciate being your guests at home and shul on a future Shabbat. We'll contact you via e-mail.

Sun Jul 26, 03:56:00 PM 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a sitting-on-the-fence female. There are things I prefer in Conservative communities but I feel close to YCT style Judaism too.

Sun Jul 26, 04:10:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Ilana-Davita, in all seriousness, I have no idea how widespread the more left-leaning versions of Orthodoxy are. I'm happy to know that "YCT-style Judaism" exists in such far-flung places as Paris.

Sun Jul 26, 04:57:00 PM 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't exactly say that YCT-style Judaism is widespread in France, although the election of rabbi Bernheim as France's chief rabbi should favor an MO style of Judaism as opposed to the more yeshivish trend favored by the former chief rabbi and which was out of touch with the majority of French Jews.
In my opinion this lack of sensitivity contributed to the development of Masorti Judaism in France, all the more so as it is more traditionalist than in the US.

Mon Jul 27, 04:07:00 AM 2009  
Anonymous Lurker said...

Sorry I was unclear. I am definately a lurker of the female variety and live in Wesley Hills (greater Monsey). We have a Women's Tefilah group up here (although lately less frequently due to conflicting commitments of some key people)although the YCT style MO portion of the community is small.

Mon Jul 27, 11:48:00 AM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Lurker, it's nice to know that Modern Orthodox Jews exist within hailing distance of what I gather is the generally yeshivish/Chareidi community of Monsey, NY. I hope your Women's Tefillah Group flourishes, despite the occasional (perhaps seasonal?) setback.

Mon Jul 27, 01:03:00 PM 2009  
Blogger ByTheBay said...

I'm a long-time occasional lurker. Female BT, grew up Reconstructionist and now something akin to Orthodox (certainly quite Orthopractic). I daven exclusively at orthodox shuls... and i'm in a same-sex relationship. One of these days I'll start a jewblog but in the meantime i focus on my food blog. I'm sorry I don't comment often, I rarely have time to read blogs these days.

Mon Jul 27, 02:09:00 PM 2009  
Blogger ByTheBay said...

i guess i would say that at heart i'm a "YCT style" frum person, but in reality i daven at much more right-wing shuls because that's what's most convenient

Mon Jul 27, 02:12:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Larry Lennhoff said...

One thing I'm reminded of as I read these responses is that often people choose their shuls, and sometimes their entire communities, for reasons other than ideology. An inspiring rabbi, excellent children's programs, a critical mass of agreeable people, any of these can cause someone to join a synagogue that might not match their preferences on issues of faith and practice.

Mon Jul 27, 02:33:00 PM 2009  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Larry, I think that's probably often true.

Tue Jul 28, 12:35:00 PM 2009  

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